Podcast: When Fear Runs Your Life

In this episode: we’re celebrating fear… sort of… It’s October, so fear takes center stage. I digest a Chapman University study on popularly shared fears, along with my own personal list of fears that have taken my life in negative directions. The episode closes with some great ideas on working through fear.

Got a little off schedule and missed an episode last week. And that was a wake-up call to change the production schedule a bit. New episodes will now be coming every other WEDNESDAY (was formerly Monday). Thanks for bearing with me!

Episode 13: When Fear Runs Your Life

Listen, Subscribe, and Rate: Google Play / Spotify / Apple Podcasts

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript:

  1. This is the Bad Ass Dad Pod
    1. This podcast covers the ongoing journey to live into the most bad ass version of ourselves right now… now matter what age we are.
    2. My name is Ryan Dunn. I’m the host and producer here. And I have undertaken three quests to become a bad ass dad. 
      1. I’m questing to be a bad ass physically by dunking a basketball for the first time at the age of 43. 
      2. I’m questing to be a bad ass financially by getting completely out of debt.
      3. And I’m questing to be a bad ass parent and spouse by not taking my most important relationships for granted.
    3. It’s October 2019 as this episode is recorded and released.
      1. So I appropriately wanted to talk about fear…
        1. I’m going to reveal America’s 10 top ten fears… we’ll see how they match up with your and my personal fears
        2. I’m going to explore the fears that kept me from being as adventure and productive as I wanted
        3. AND, I want to close with the proactive steps we can take to lead lives that aren’t so much governed by fear.
      2. [MUSIC OUT]
      3. I feel like I have quite a bit of authority on this particular topic–see, because I’ve long lived a life of fear.
      4. This podcast came out of a conscious objection to the fears governing my life. 
        1. Nothing kills fear quite like naming it.
        2. So I’ve kind of gone public with my fears–fears like being insignificant, being washed up, being a failure…
        3. I’m going to explore all that a lot more in-depth in a little bit.
  2. I tested the limits of my fear this past week.
    1. I missed an episode–something I’ve been terrified to do.
    2. Some of my podcast heroes–folks like Aaron Mahnke and Jeff Sanders–they say never to miss an episode.
      1. You want people to trust you as creator.
      2. And the best way to inspire trust is to be consistent in releasing material.
      3. So up to this point, I’d been releasing a new episode every other Monday without fail.
      4. Up until last week… when I just didn’t get it done.
      5. I could give you a number of excuses on why that happened. 
      6. But I know that it likely doesn’t matter much what my excuses were.
      7. I reached a point where I made a conscious decision to not produce an episode by last Monday… 
      8. And here’s what happened: the world hasn’t ended.
      9. NOW, I may yet have a price to pay in dropped subscriptions or something…
      10. BUT, the fear of missing an episode has been somewhat excised by the action of doing the thing I fear to do…
      11. So, I’m sorry I missed a week. I’m picked up where I left off. 
      12. And I think I’ll need to go ahead and admit that I need to change my production schedule a bit.
        1. So new episodes are now going to come on every other Wednesday.
        2. I feel like that’ll get me into the week in a better way.
        3. And NOT cram my Sundays full of last-minute production stuff.
        4. Since, you know, I still work a full-time job, have my quests, and produce this thing in some off time.
      13. So fear addressed, action taken, and new episodes now coming every other Wednesday.
  3. This is probably the most research intense episode to date.
    1. In doing my research, I found a study on fear conducted by Chapman University
    2. Every few years, Chapman University does a survey exploring the fears of average Americans.
    3. The most recent one I found results for was in 2018. 
      1. So let’s run through this thing and see how they match with your fears and my fears.
      2. I found a few surprising… and you probably will, too–because things like heights, snakes, and dying are not in the top 10 commonly shared fears of Americans.
      3. It might pay to hit pause here for a second and think about the things you most fear… It’ll be fun to see how your list matches this list.
    4. Now, if you have a list in mind, let’s roll through this.
      1. #10 most shared fear among Americans: High medical bills.
        1. Seems that about 53% of us are scared of getting hit by a big medical expense.
        2. It’s a bit revealing to me how our political situation has changed how people view this kind of stuff.
          1. In 2016 when they did this study, the #10 shared fear, with about 35% of respondents claiming this frightened them… was OBAMACARE–or the affordable care act.
          2. Apparently, the Affordable Care Act did not frighten a significant enough portion of the American public to garner mention in the 2018 survey. 
          3. But we’re still shaking about medical bills.
          4. You can take that info however you wish…
      2. So scary thing #10: High medical bills. Scary thing #9: Global Warming and Climate Change.
        1. Despite the urgency of Greta Thunberg (Toon-burg), only 53.2% of us are afraid of what’s going on in the environment.
        2. On the whole, we’re becoming more afraid, statistically speaking. 
          1. For example, the #1 ranked fear in 2016 only frightened 60% of the respondents. While it frightens nearly 74% today. (Oh, and what is definitely represents a commentary on our political situation…ANYWAYS…)
          2. This is one of those topics where we are becoming increasingly afraid.
          3. So while a simple majority of us are concerned about the global warming… the percentage of those of us who are concerned is steadily increasing–
            1. Up from 32.3% in 2016
            2. Which can be read as a positive for those of us who are afraid there are foul things afoot with climate change… because more people are becoming aware and giving a crap.
      3. Ready for the #8 shared fear of Americans?
        1. It’s Extinction of plant and animal species.
        2. Which somehow lept over global warming from its placement in previous years.
        3. Any of these matched your personal fears yet?
        4. Some of the really personal-type fears are still yet to come…
      4. #7 on the Chapman list was Air Pollution.
        1. 55% of us are scared of air pollution.
        2. This one strikes me while I’m driving in to downtown Nashville for work each day and I can see the haze sitting over the skyline.
        3. I’m pretty sure it’s not supposed to look that way.
        4. And it provides another reason for me to take the train to work… which I don’t yet do daily, but do do with increasing regularity.
      5. Alright, we’re down to our #6 most popular–or shared–fear amongst Americans.
        1. It’s “People I love dying.”
        2. There’s still some altruism in the world today.
        3. I’m going to divulge here that the fear of death does not crack the top 10.
        4. BUT, we are afraid of our loved ones passing away. Well, at least, 56.4% of us are afraid of our loved ones passing away.
        5. This one makes me wonder what’s been happening in the world to make us more fearful of this, because in 2016, while this idea still held the number 6 position, only 38% of us were afraid of it.
        6. In 2017, Death of a loved one did not crack the top 10.
        7. Now it’s back up to #6 at 56.4%… Any idea why? I’m not really sure, either.
      6. #5… here’s one that I would have listed on my personal list prior to reading this survey… People I love becoming seriously ill.
        1. 56.5% of us fear that.
        2. Which, not surprisingly, just about matches our fear of a loved one dying.
      7. #4 is another one that would have made my personal list… and still would be in my top 5 list of fears: Not having enough money for the future.
        1. I’m still terrified by the thought of losing my job.
        2. How would we afford housing? Or medical bills? 
        3. As more and more of us live paycheck to paycheck (which, statistically we ARE doing), this fear is likely to keep increasing–because more and more of us are living without a safety net.
        4. This fear has motivated some action for me…
          1. Since I am socking away some money each month.
          2. But the debt payments I have to meet on a monthly basis really hamper some serious savings.
          3. So, until I kill those debt payments, I’ll still hold this fear.
          4. Thankfully, I’m working a plan to kill that debt. Fall 2021 is the magic threshold for being debt free, baby.
      8. The next two commonly shared fears really surprised me. #3 is “Pollution of drinking water.” 60.7% of us are scared of that.
        1. I have not been scared of that.
        2. Am I naive? I just always assume my drinking water… the water flowing from my tap… is safe. 
        3. Perhaps I’ve been fortunate and privileged enough to live in areas where that is rarely an issue.
        4. Is it an issue for you?
      9. #2 is another closely related item: “Pollution of oceans, rivers, and lakes.”
        1. If left to create my own list, this might not pop on on there.
        2. BUT, when it’s suggested, I would definitely concur that I’m afraid about water pollution.
        3. Today I usually carry an assumption that any body of water is unsafe to drink or enter until I am told otherwise.
        4. I don’t think I always held that assumption… perhaps I was just more naive as a teenager… but in those days we same wherever we wanted… and asked questions later… and we liked it!
      10. Alright, time for the big reveal. The most commonly shared fear amongst Americans… 
        1. Something that 73.6% of us admit to being afraid of…
        2. Up from 60.6% two years prior (which would have been 2016, mind you)… and, yes, I am pointing this out as a matter of political commentary…
        3. The #1 Fear is: “Corrupt government officials”!
        4. Personally, I’m really keyed up to see how 2019’s survey polls out.
          1. From past history, Chapman University should be releasing those results some time in October of 2019… so stay tuned.
          2. I’ve put a link to some of the 2018 results on the web site: TheBADPod.com… and I’m sure that page will have links to 2019’s results once they’re love.
  4. So how’d you score out?
    1. Did you have a lot of matches?
    2. Were those fears your fears?
    3. I did not explore Chapman University’s methodology for this survey
      1. So I am a bit curious as to how the responses were collected.
      2. For example, did they offer a list of topics and people simply responded by rating how afraid they were of the presented topic… 
      3. OR, did responders write in their own topics of fear?
      4. I ask, because, left to create my own personal list of fears, my list was strikingly different…
        1. For the most part, my fears were much more personal in nature.
        2. And that adds a whole new fear to my list: fear that I’m just being selfish…
        3. So many of these fears are about other people and the world, but my fears are very much about numero uno–myself.
  5. Before reading this list of fears offered by Chapman University, I did assemble my own list of 5 fears that have been shaping my life.
    1. It’s a sobering process. Because in doing that, I saw how much of my life has been governed by fear.
    2. It seems that quite a bit of it has been… That amounts to feeling hemmed in a lot of the time–maybe even trapped.
    3. It means that there are a lot of things I told myself I wouldn’t be able to do… so it’s best not to try.
    4. To see how this all pans out, let’s take a look at those fears
    5. Here are the top 5 fears that have been shaping my life…
      1. If the Chapman University list didn’t hit with you on a personal level
      2. I’ll be that this one does
  6. Number one, BY FAR: Fear of rejection.
  1. I have been afraid of people laughing at me… or not liking me… or making a decision that I don’t belong… or of thinking that I’m difficult
  2. This one actually makes me sick some times… because it leads to some really gutless situations
    1. Like not speaking up when I should…
    2. Or passing up what could be a great opportunity simply because I’m afraid of a possible negative consequence.
  3. This fear generally keeps me from really being myself. 
    1. I don’t want to let myself be known. 
    2. Because, if I’m not known, then I can’t truly be rejected.
  4. I participate in a local podcasters group here in Nashville
    1. There are some pretty big podcasters who are active in it as well
      1. Fear of rejection is what keeps me from talking to any of them.
      2. They could be great connections and wonderful mentors or advisors…
      3. But I talk myself out of speaking with them… saying that I have no business bothering them…
      4. Even though they’re at a meet up event–where people are supposed to be mixing and bothering one another.
    2. So, I promise I will gut it up and approach one those podcast heroes at the next meet up.
  5. This fear of rejection is also the fear that keeps me from sharing my feelings much of the time
    1. Especially when those feelings are negative.
    2. Like when I’m angry or emotionally hurt
    3. In these instances, I’m afraid that the other person involved will feel like my feelings are invalid and push me away… or reject me
      1. So if my spouse has done something… or, maybe more likely, not done something and I’m angry because of it
      2. I bottle it up
      3. Or if a work situation has shaken out unfairly
      4. I tamp those negative feelings down.
    4. Better to bottle that stuff up then push people away, right?
      1. Except I’m not letting myself be known.
      2. And that ends up pushing people away.
      3. I have sometimes received criticism that I am hard to know… or that I’m reserved… that I’m walled off at times.
      4. I think that’s because I tend to hold things in out of fear.
      5. The irony, of course, is that I end up enduring rejection because people don’t know me more often than I experience rejection by those who do actually know me.
    5. And I’ll tell you, this one runs deep. 
      1. PThis bottling up of true feelings is tough to overcome.
      2. Contrary to some thought… it’s not like these things, these feelings, are just waiting for the right moment to geyser out
      3. I think working through this is a long process…
      4. Like water cutting through a stone.
      5. I’ve started by taking some smaller risks… sharing just a little bit more of myself than I’ve generally been comfortable sharing
      6. An example of this was when I spoke up in a work situation sharing what I feared would be an unpopular opinion.
        1. Basically, I was raising an objection to an advertising tag line that the rest of my team loved.
        2. I liked it, too… but I didn’t think our organization could use it. I thought it represented something to our constituents that was actually counter to some of our DNA.
        3. So I voiced my opinion.
        4. And I still work there. I wasn’t fired on the spot. No bridges were burned. 
        5. And I gained a valuable experience in sharing an unpopular opinion.
      7. Now, to risk some of that opinion in the home…
      8. Haha.
  6. Alright, let’s continue on… my number two fear: Fear of getting pulled in over my head.
    1. Or, maybe it’s the fear of biting off more than I can chew…
    2. OR, maybe it’s actually the fear of failure….
    3. Key phrase for this fear is: “I can’t do that!”
      1. This is the fear that arises every time I look up at a 10-foot basketball hoop.
      2. I start to tell myself I’m so far from reaching my goal of dunking.
      3. I’m wasting my time. Because… “I can’t do that.”
    4. The past couple weeks have been go time on the pop up camper…
      1. If you’re new…
        1. I took a big risk a couple months ago and bought a well-used, somewhat neglected pop up camper
        2. I knew it needed a little work… but I didn’t realize how MUCH work it truly needed until that thing was bought, delivered, and sitting in my driveway.
      2. I actually tried to bale on this thing
        1. I started a list of all the things we needed to do to it and I wanted to just resell it and cut my losses
        2. It was the fear of getting over my head
          1. I actually laid down on one of the pull out beds, 
          2. Looking at one of the holes in the canvas
          3. And told myself, repeatedly, that I was in over my head and I couldn’t do this.
      3. Mrs. BP wouldn’t let me quit…
        1. I told her my idea of cutting our losses and reselling
        2. And she simply said that I had led us into this… and I couldn’t just bail out on them now
        3. We were already invested
        4. I had to give the restoration a shot.
      4. So it’s underway…
        1. It IS taking longer than hoped.
        2. I missed an episode last week trying to get that thing pulled together in preps for a camping trip we’d been planning for months.
        3. I didn’t make it… we ended up camping in our old tent.
        4. I’ve rebuilt the roof… I’ve resupported part of the floor… I’ve patched the canvas… I’ve patched holes in the aluminum exterior… 
        5. It’s funny, because the closer I get to having this thing be usable, the more this voice pops into my head to suggest that I’m missing something
          1. Like, internally, I have been convinced of failure
          2. So, the more likely it becomes that I’m going to have this thing out in a campsite
          3. The more this voice floats up in my consciousness to suggest that I’m missing something and the camper isn’t going to work.
        6. The only way to deal here is to keep plugging along.
        7. My to-do list is getting shorter…
          1. And there are actually only three or four more items on it that have to be done in order to make this camper usable.
          2. The rest of the list is just adding comfort and curb appeal.
    5. This fear of getting in over my head is the fear that kept me from podcasting for well over a year
      1. Though I had all the technical know-how to start creating something
      2. I convinced myself I didn’t have material
      3. I was sure to fail because I wouldn’t be able to string together enough content to keep the thing going.
      4. So I delayed a great opportunity for a considerable amount of time… until I just got fed up with the regret of not doing anything and went for it.
      5. A great quote I often lean into says: “There are two kinds of pain… the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. You must choose which one you’re willing to accept.”
      6. Giving in to the fear of getting in over our heads is a choice for the pain of regret.
    6. Alright, we get the point on that one… let’s move on…
  7. Fear number three that has governed the life of Ryan: FOMO, baby!
    1. We’ve all heard of it…The fear of missing out.
    2. It’s the fear that has us compulsively checking our phones to see what other people are up to…
      1. Or makes us afraid to go out and about without a wireless connection
      2. The fear that makes people like me compulsively watch sports…
        1. ‘Cuz, you know, something great might happen and wouldn’t I be sad to have missed it…
      3. You get the idea…
    3. It takes a different shape in some cases, though… 
      1. Like, I’m afraid I’m not using what’s been entrusted to me.
        1. I have a fear of missing out on not living into potential
      2. Another way of looking at this is: the fear of letting others down.
        1. God has given me gifts… some natural talents and abilities
        2. My parents have invested in me.
        3. My family has made sacrifices for me…
        4. What if I don’t live up to their investments?
        5. What if I’m just a waste?
        6. What if I’m the draft bust of life?
    4. Now, in some cases… or to some limited degree… this fear can actually be helpful…
      1. It might push us into taking some action
      2. Being afraid that I’m not using the gifts that have been given to me actually encourages me to work with what I’ve got…
      3. It pushes me to choose the pain of discipline in developing my talents over the pain of regret involved in not taking advantage of the breaks I’ve been given.
    5. But on the more extreme end, this fear can be debilitating because it leads to a comparison trap
      1. Here’s how I see that happening…
      2. And I’m going to reference my financial situation as an object lesson.
        1. Because, we are where we are today financially due to FOMO…
        2. This is the fear that pushed us to decide that we needed to take a Disney vacation before we could actually afford
        3. It’s the fear that convinced us to move into a larger house that we couldn’t maintain because we saw so many other people our age with houses that were nicer than ours.
        4. AND SO… we went heavily into debt.
        5. Which has led us to where we are today…
          1. We’re not going to Disney anytime soon.
          2. We don’t own a home…
          3. And we’re adopting some austerity measures while we aggressively pay down our debt.
        6. That’s the negative side of FOMO… we see what others have, and we’re afraid we’re missing out so we prematurely reach for something.
      3. But into terms of physical training…
        1. I might see another 43-year old who can run a sub 20 5K (for those not into running… that’s running really fast).
        2. I convince myself that I can do that in a race, too… without the proper training… and I go for it and bonk out or get injured…
        3. INSTEAD of being convinced that I could do that… and then training for seriously appropriate amount of time and leading me into doing something significant.
        4. This shows that there is a healthy way to to deal with FOMO… a way that encourages us to use our given talents… and a negative way to deal with FOMO that digs us into a hole.
  8. Let’s look at the number four fear: Fear of looking arrogant… 
    1. I’m afraid that if I used the talents supplied me, I’m going to look arrogant.
    2. This may be some kind of weird neuroses… because there’s nothing wrong with being good at something. 
    3. And it’s totally possible to be humble and be good at something.
    4. So I don’t need to hide my natural talents… being good does not make me arrogant.
    5. So, that’s my pep talk to self about that fear. 
    6. It’s totally acceptable to be good… and I’m going to need to live into my talents or else I’m going to get pulled deeper into fear number 3: that fear that I’m missing out by NOT amounting to anything.
    7. So, don’t be afraid to be good, self.
  9. Number 5. Final fear. Not sure how to sum up this one: I have a fear of people.
    1. Like, I don’t want to get entangled with people.
    2. It’s different than the fear of rejection.
    3. I’m afraid of taking on their weight… of feeling with them
    4. See, I’m highly empathetic
      1. When you go into ministry, you get bombarded with these psychological tests
      2. I scored pretty high the empathy scale
      3. Means I understand others’ feelings well.
      4. Also means I get drained by being around people… especially if there’s conflict or uneasiness.
      5. I’m afraid I’m going to get pulled up into their stuff and lose myself…
      6. And have all my energy drained. 
      7. Since in some ways, I feel what others feel… or, at least, feel a piece of what they feel, then I too can be drained by their tense emotional states.
    5. This fear keeps me on guard around people. 
      1. I stay away from their emotional states.
      2. I’m still interested in people.
      3. I’m just wary of their emotonal…stuff.
      4. I’m afraid of people’s emotions.
  10. Did this list of fears sound a bit more familiar?
    1. Are these the kinds of fears you’re harboring, too?
    2. OR, maybe you some to add to the list.
    3. If I can be of help in killing those things by giving you a place to name them, leave comment on this episode page on the website or on one of the related social posts. Name that thing and then watch it deflate.
  11. Naming the fear is the first step in facing. But it’s often not enough to take all our power away from our fears.

So what do we do when we feel like we’re being guided by fear?

  • Live into our values, that’s what.
    • How does this help?
    • Wel, when we’re being guided by fear, we actually are practicing values
      • But our values are misguided or, well, mispracticed.
      • They’ve become more about ego preservation or pain-avoidance than the life-giving values we might proclaim…
        • Like community good
        • Or family
      • Often, fear will hold us back from doing the things we, actually, really want to do.
        • Perhaps you value personal health
        • And you’ve found yourself with a few extra pounds (I’ve been there)
        • Living into that value might dictate doing some dieting, restricting sugar, exercising more regularly…. all that.
        • BUT fear says “That’s hard! What if it doesn’t work? What if you get hungry? What if exercise hurts? When are you going to have time for this?”
        • It becomes pretty easy to rationalize our fears… especially when our inner critics talk such a good game.
      • We can often kill fear by naming it, though—especially when it’s a personal fear… like of a fear of my ego getting hurt or fear of having to try hard.
        • I couldn’t stomach actually not doing something because of those fears, so when I ID them and name them, I’m ready to blow past them
        • And I’m ready to do the stufff that’s really important and edifying… and the stuff that truly offers me some contentment in life.
    • Checking in or values provides a redirect
  • So we need to spend some time defning what our values are.
  • A couple ways to do this.
    • First way is really humbling… this is determining your practiced values
      • Because, often, the values you put into practice are different than the values you name
      • You can figure out you’re practiced values by following the treasure trail…
      • I did this when I began the whole debt retirement process.
        • I wanted to know where our family’s money was going
        • And what we found was that a lot of our expendable income was going towards activities of distraction…
          • Those are things like TV subscriptions
          • Gaming apps
          • Eating out
          • Consuming junk food
        • NONE of those things are what anyone in our family would have named as a value…
          • YOu know, we don’t value playing video games
          • We don’t value consuming frozen pizzas
          • But that’s where a lot of treasure—in terms of time and money invested—that’s where it was ending up.
          • It was ending up buried under these anchors that kept us from actually moving towards our values.
      • So I traced the treasure trail and found that my practiced values weren’t exactly what I thought they were.
      • I spent a lot of time and money on distraction activities
      • Which showed that, in practice, I didn’t value much about my life… and that I did value being distracted from it
      • I wanted to value health and creativity and family
        • But I had to admit that I wasn’t spending all that much of my treasure—that being time and money—in pursuit of those things.
        • This actually is a cycle
        • I was unhappy because my lifestyle didn’t meet my values
        • So I engaged in a lot distraction pursuits—which made me more unhappy because I wasn’t engaged with my values
      • So checking out where your time and money are going leads to a definition of practiced values, which also provides an opportunity for redirect
    • There’s another way to define values…
      • Imagine your life 5 years from now…
        • What are you doing?
        • What kind of work and leisure are you engaged in?
        • Here’s where I imagine being in 5 years:
          • My family lives in a country home… with some land and a garden and all that.
          • We work outside together on the daily
          • I’m able to easily balance that with my writing schedule
          • We’re rehabilitating some animals while we move towards taking our home off the grid.
          • We work hard but are really satisfied by the work we’re doing.
        • From that synopsis, what values are revealed?
          • I would say: Creativity. A will to unplug from consumerism and the proverbial rat race. Care for the outside world. Family activity…
        • It’s possible to go way more in-depth—like describing what my marriage will be like in 5 years… or describing my parenting relationships… you get the picture
      • The practice reveals our hopes which denotes what we value.
      • This is a little more aspirational way of defining values.
    • Truth be told, it probably pays to both follow the treasure trail AND to imagine life in 5 years. And the start to draw some connections between the two…
      • Especially in terms of defining how our practices differ from our hoped-for values.
    • Our values overcome our fears 
      • Well, actually, our values redirect our fears
        • This time of year—it’s mid-October as I record this—around this time of year we celebrate fear
        • We realize that some fear can be good.
          • So we go to spook houses and watch scary movies.
        • Some fear in life can be good, too.
          • It’s probably a good thing that I fear I’m not using the talents within me.
        • Values CAN give SOME of our fears a positive focus.
        • The rest of your fears… values help put them in their proper place
          • Which is not a place of control.
          • Values redirect or displace fears.
      • So here’s an October challenge… as your celebrating fear this season
        • Can you name the fears that act as anchors in your life…
        • And, once those are named, can you identify your values and see how they displace and direct those fears…
  • So that’s where I’m at this month.
    • Thanks for journeying this far with me.
    • Just a reminder: new episode release schedule… it’s now going to be every other WEDNESDAY… so I’ll be chatting up your earbuds again in two weeks.
    • In the meantime… check out the website: the bad Pod.com… there’s something new there every week.
    • Give a follow on social media and say high… those socials are detailed on the site, too.
    • My name is Ryan Dunn… I’m producer and host here.
    • The music is by Eyoelin.
    • If you’re looking to support what’s going here, you could show that support by leaving a rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice… like Apple Podcasts. 

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